blackcrayon
Mar 22, 05:02 PM
I can assure that doubling the 256MB of the first iPad is not enough for people that need a lot of multitask, like me.
...
If you just can't recognize how multitask works better with 1GB RAM and true background apps (QNX, Honeycomb), then you deserve to use a limited thing like an iPad.
I like products, not brands.
Question: does anyone know if the A5 design could've fit 1 GB of RAM, or if anyone else is packaging more than 512 MB of RAM inside of their SoC? Just wondering, it may actually be a limitation of the A5's design(or at least one with a huge cost increase to overcome), but the other side is faster, lower latency memory. I don't know if Samsung will be using a similar design, but I don't think the Tegra 2 tablets have their memory "sandwiched" on top of the CPU cores, so to speak. Or maybe it makes no difference in the real world, guess I need an engineer to explain :)
...
If you just can't recognize how multitask works better with 1GB RAM and true background apps (QNX, Honeycomb), then you deserve to use a limited thing like an iPad.
I like products, not brands.
Question: does anyone know if the A5 design could've fit 1 GB of RAM, or if anyone else is packaging more than 512 MB of RAM inside of their SoC? Just wondering, it may actually be a limitation of the A5's design(or at least one with a huge cost increase to overcome), but the other side is faster, lower latency memory. I don't know if Samsung will be using a similar design, but I don't think the Tegra 2 tablets have their memory "sandwiched" on top of the CPU cores, so to speak. Or maybe it makes no difference in the real world, guess I need an engineer to explain :)
marksman
Apr 11, 03:14 PM
You're kidding right? iPhone 4 and iOS 4 are incredibly stale. Apple has realized this and hence strong rumors suggest a total revamped iOS 5. Anyway i don't agree with you, i don't think the iPhone 4 is the best smartphone in the market.
No I am not kidding. If those are the best phones in the market why do multiple iPhone and Blackberry devices outsell the best android phone ALWAYS?
People keep wanting to point to these android spec whore of the month models, but they don't offer a superior experience... It is just silly.
Like I said,t he iPhone 4 is stil the best smartphone out there.
The thunderbolt doesn't even come close to outselling the iPhone just on Verizon.
No I am not kidding. If those are the best phones in the market why do multiple iPhone and Blackberry devices outsell the best android phone ALWAYS?
People keep wanting to point to these android spec whore of the month models, but they don't offer a superior experience... It is just silly.
Like I said,t he iPhone 4 is stil the best smartphone out there.
The thunderbolt doesn't even come close to outselling the iPhone just on Verizon.
leekohler
Apr 28, 03:53 PM
I wonder what it would be like to go through life looking for racism around every corner? Constantly seeing the world in these glasses would have to be very tiresome and frustrating. Pretty sad really. People need to stop thinking about themselves and others as being members of groups, and start thinking of everyone as individuals. We're a society of individuals, we get our rights and our liberties as individuals, not because we're part of group A or group B.
We will when conservatives quit giving us very good reasons for believing so. And we don't have to look around every corner. Conservatives bring it right into people's faces.
If liberals would stop 'crying wolf' ('claiming racism') at every corner, we might actually take them seriously and help out when there's actual evidence.
Hmm...and just why did you obsess all day yesterday about "layers" in the online PDF or the birth certificate?
We will when conservatives quit giving us very good reasons for believing so. And we don't have to look around every corner. Conservatives bring it right into people's faces.
If liberals would stop 'crying wolf' ('claiming racism') at every corner, we might actually take them seriously and help out when there's actual evidence.
Hmm...and just why did you obsess all day yesterday about "layers" in the online PDF or the birth certificate?
ergle2
Sep 19, 12:14 PM
so... after reading here for a while i got a question, its kinda stupid, i'm good at that,
first off, i was doubting between the 24" and the macpro so i disided that for my needs i should realy go with a macpro, but know that i'm hearing things about this 8 core macpro, i'm realy doubting about ordering my quad macpro this month,
has anybody got an idea of how long it would be before apple launches " a macpro octo " :confused:
thx for your time :)
It's Apple. No-one has any idea when they'll do anything. :)
It could be as soon as January, could be a lot later -- but I seriously doubt it'd be at the same price as a quad is now. I'd figure on a fairly major premium. It wouldn't surprise me if the OEM price of processors was in the $1200-1500 range alone (current 3.0GHz 5160's are around $900) for a lower clock-speed version.
Which is fastest will very much depend upon how well your specific applications scale -- fewer, faster cores can often bear more slower cores, and scaling isn't linear -- traditional thought on SMP was that the first extra core you add adds 80-90% to the speed (for fully-threaded apps, obv.), the second adds about 60-70%, the third about 40%, and so-on... diminishing returns. This will be more so because each chip has a finite amount of bandwidth that is shared between all the cores -- more cores = more contention for the available bandwidth.
Of course, the Mac Pro CPUs are socketed, so you can always go Octo at a later date if you so choose...
first off, i was doubting between the 24" and the macpro so i disided that for my needs i should realy go with a macpro, but know that i'm hearing things about this 8 core macpro, i'm realy doubting about ordering my quad macpro this month,
has anybody got an idea of how long it would be before apple launches " a macpro octo " :confused:
thx for your time :)
It's Apple. No-one has any idea when they'll do anything. :)
It could be as soon as January, could be a lot later -- but I seriously doubt it'd be at the same price as a quad is now. I'd figure on a fairly major premium. It wouldn't surprise me if the OEM price of processors was in the $1200-1500 range alone (current 3.0GHz 5160's are around $900) for a lower clock-speed version.
Which is fastest will very much depend upon how well your specific applications scale -- fewer, faster cores can often bear more slower cores, and scaling isn't linear -- traditional thought on SMP was that the first extra core you add adds 80-90% to the speed (for fully-threaded apps, obv.), the second adds about 60-70%, the third about 40%, and so-on... diminishing returns. This will be more so because each chip has a finite amount of bandwidth that is shared between all the cores -- more cores = more contention for the available bandwidth.
Of course, the Mac Pro CPUs are socketed, so you can always go Octo at a later date if you so choose...
WildCowboy
Sep 18, 11:03 PM
It would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. I've still got another couple of revisions before I'm ready to buy, so I'll be sitting this one out.
My gut feeling is that there won't be any new hardware at Photokina, but a later release of the MeromBooks in time for Christmas is certainly possible.
My gut feeling is that there won't be any new hardware at Photokina, but a later release of the MeromBooks in time for Christmas is certainly possible.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 1, 05:00 AM
What I do is none of your damn business. And your opinion has no bearing on my life. Why you feel the need to tell others what to do is beyond me. Take care of your own house, let me take care of mine.
I don't want to know what Lee does. I've said what I believe. I haven't told anyone to do anything.
I don't want to know what Lee does. I've said what I believe. I haven't told anyone to do anything.
AndrewR23
Apr 11, 11:23 AM
I hope not. I want the 5 now :)
MacSA
Aug 7, 05:32 PM
As a recent switcher to Mac, I have had a lot of experience with M$'s System Restore function. It is NOT a "go back and find that data I deleted" application. It IS a "can we please go back to a time when this computer wasn't totally ********* up" application.
I know, I cant believe people are comparing it to the sytem restore on Windows... sys restore on my PC is total bollocks and never solved any problem I had.
I know, I cant believe people are comparing it to the sytem restore on Windows... sys restore on my PC is total bollocks and never solved any problem I had.
samcraig
Apr 27, 11:19 AM
News on slashdot.org:
77 Million Accounts Stolen From Playstation Network.
Earth will not stop turning, but I think this is just slightly, slightly worse than a file that shows where you haven't exactly been at some point in the past if someone steals your iPhone.
See title of the thread: "Apple addresses controversy". There is and there never was a problem, but the idiocracy forced Apple to act to end the controversy. Right now, who do you think should worry more, iPhone owners or PS3 owners?
Both are issues. Both are being addressed. Why must someone (you) throw one company under the bus in favor of supporting another. Both had/have issues and both are responding.
77 Million Accounts Stolen From Playstation Network.
Earth will not stop turning, but I think this is just slightly, slightly worse than a file that shows where you haven't exactly been at some point in the past if someone steals your iPhone.
See title of the thread: "Apple addresses controversy". There is and there never was a problem, but the idiocracy forced Apple to act to end the controversy. Right now, who do you think should worry more, iPhone owners or PS3 owners?
Both are issues. Both are being addressed. Why must someone (you) throw one company under the bus in favor of supporting another. Both had/have issues and both are responding.
robanga
Mar 22, 01:48 PM
Can you imagine any scenario in which RIM remains relevant and does not continue its slide down?
Is there a founder waiting to come back and right the ship?
Will this product launch to a couple million sold in its first weeks, month or even quarter? Sold through now... not sold to a channel where they will sit on the shelf. This is an incredibly uphill battle for RIM, Motorola or whomever right now. Non-recognition of that is simply hope in a non-apple white horse.
I want Apple to have competition, without it they will grow complacent. I just don't see it on this front. Android phones is another story but tablets...yikes its going to take a lot more than this.
Is there a founder waiting to come back and right the ship?
Will this product launch to a couple million sold in its first weeks, month or even quarter? Sold through now... not sold to a channel where they will sit on the shelf. This is an incredibly uphill battle for RIM, Motorola or whomever right now. Non-recognition of that is simply hope in a non-apple white horse.
I want Apple to have competition, without it they will grow complacent. I just don't see it on this front. Android phones is another story but tablets...yikes its going to take a lot more than this.
ryanx27
Aug 27, 11:05 AM
I happen to have a Yonah Macbook, and im a little concerned.
I wonder, if merom does make it into the Macbooks did i make a mistake by buying my computer before i had to (as in next friday is the cutoff)
I wonder if Merom is really that good. *it sucks that macbooks dont have PGA slots*
well im hoping to sell this one next year, and thatll get me most of the way to my santa rosa beast, cuz i KNOW santa rosa is that good.
This is the classic existential dilemma of the Mac user :D
I wonder, if merom does make it into the Macbooks did i make a mistake by buying my computer before i had to (as in next friday is the cutoff)
I wonder if Merom is really that good. *it sucks that macbooks dont have PGA slots*
well im hoping to sell this one next year, and thatll get me most of the way to my santa rosa beast, cuz i KNOW santa rosa is that good.
This is the classic existential dilemma of the Mac user :D
Stella
Apr 5, 05:24 PM
Hoping they'll be a Final Cut Pro Express derived from this version.. the current Express is getting a bit long in the tooth. The UI is hideous by today's standards.
BlondeBuddhist
Jun 10, 12:37 PM
When I talked to the rep at The Shack 2 days ago he told me to keep checking back for what time they'll be open on launch day. He said there is a good chance I'll know when I pre-orer the 15th.
As far as how many non pre-order phones they plan to have, he told me they will likely have as many stock phones as they get pre-ordered. Doesn't apply to those pre-ordering as much as those hitting up RS for shorter lines that didn't pre-order.
I wonder if they will allow me to pay in full on the 15th as oppose to the $50 down payment. Either way I hope this helps Radio Shack out. I have been treated 100X better by the staff there compared to Best Buy OR AT&T. Plus they're prices seem better. When I was there asking about the pre-orders I purchased a car charger/cord to plug my ipod in to the glove box that runs thru the deck for only $37 with tax.
Blonde Buddhist
As far as how many non pre-order phones they plan to have, he told me they will likely have as many stock phones as they get pre-ordered. Doesn't apply to those pre-ordering as much as those hitting up RS for shorter lines that didn't pre-order.
I wonder if they will allow me to pay in full on the 15th as oppose to the $50 down payment. Either way I hope this helps Radio Shack out. I have been treated 100X better by the staff there compared to Best Buy OR AT&T. Plus they're prices seem better. When I was there asking about the pre-orders I purchased a car charger/cord to plug my ipod in to the glove box that runs thru the deck for only $37 with tax.
Blonde Buddhist
MrXiro
Apr 8, 12:22 AM
I wouldn't be surprised. The quota explanation was given already, but they might also be holding back stock of the cheaper models in order to drive more sales of the higher end ones. "Oh, you wanted the 16 gig wifi model? Sorry, all sold out. But we do have this lovely 64 gig 3G version. If you really want the iPad 2, this is your big chance... it's only a little bit more..."
That happened to me, almost, when I bought the original iPad from Best Buy here in Canada on our launch day last year. The guy almost smirked when he said, sorry, the 16 gig ones were all sold out, but they had plenty of the 64 gig models. Luckily I persisted and he managed to find one more 16 gig, the last one! How lucky was that! :rolleyes:
Hmm... I think they did that to me! I went in just a few hours after the iPad 2 went on sale... they said all they had left was the 64gb Verizon model. :-/
I have an iPad already... I was just asking to see how they were selling.
That happened to me, almost, when I bought the original iPad from Best Buy here in Canada on our launch day last year. The guy almost smirked when he said, sorry, the 16 gig ones were all sold out, but they had plenty of the 64 gig models. Luckily I persisted and he managed to find one more 16 gig, the last one! How lucky was that! :rolleyes:
Hmm... I think they did that to me! I went in just a few hours after the iPad 2 went on sale... they said all they had left was the 64gb Verizon model. :-/
I have an iPad already... I was just asking to see how they were selling.
grum
Sep 19, 08:11 AM
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
ZoomZoomZoom
Sep 19, 02:19 AM
What is wrong with you people? Meroms in other brands of laptops haven't, or are only *just* starting to ship, and you people wail that Apple is doomed, when in the worst case scenario, they'll be a few days behind Dell. If they don't ship by next month, then sure, complain, but really, most of those who moan that Apple is "OMG SO OUTDATED MEROM MBPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED 2 MONTHS AGO!!!" are out of touch with reality.
Except that:
(1) Meroms in other brands of laptops have been shipping for nearly 3 weeks. A quick Google shows that some people have been receiving them on their doorstep by the first day of September.
(2) Those of us that buy Macbook Pros are throwing down $2500+ for top-of-the-line laptops. Sub-$1000 laptops have had a better processor than Apple's flagship laptops for nearly a month now. If you can still defend Apple after this, do a reality check on the fanboyism.
Except that:
(1) Meroms in other brands of laptops have been shipping for nearly 3 weeks. A quick Google shows that some people have been receiving them on their doorstep by the first day of September.
(2) Those of us that buy Macbook Pros are throwing down $2500+ for top-of-the-line laptops. Sub-$1000 laptops have had a better processor than Apple's flagship laptops for nearly a month now. If you can still defend Apple after this, do a reality check on the fanboyism.
michaelrjohnson
Aug 7, 04:46 PM
So the cat won't be out of the bag until Spring 2007?
I thought Leopard was slated for December?
Maybe that means it will actually be launched at MWSF in January ...
January is not Spring. Do not expect a release in January; Expect a full-featured preview, with an announcement of a final shipping-date.
I thought Leopard was slated for December?
Maybe that means it will actually be launched at MWSF in January ...
January is not Spring. Do not expect a release in January; Expect a full-featured preview, with an announcement of a final shipping-date.
Macnoviz
Jul 21, 04:20 PM
I'm not ripping DVDs. I'm ripping DVD IMAGES made with Toast from EyeTV2 Digital SD and HD recordings to archive off air broadcast recordings for my personal use only. Nothing to do with seeding anything to anyone. Need more cores to encode and rip simultaneously instead of sequentially. Much faster to do a bunch of one or two shows simultaneously than larger sets sequentially. More cores will also allow for faster compacting of the edited shows - IE removal of ads - in the first place.
Oh, so that's why you want Handbrake fourfold, I was going to ask wether you had 4 optical drives.
Oh, so that's why you want Handbrake fourfold, I was going to ask wether you had 4 optical drives.
boncellis
Jul 20, 12:07 PM
Ah I see ... thought it was about WWDC 2006 my bad.
Yeah I don't think we will see 10.5 released at MWSF '07 (thinking CQ2 2007) but after I get back from WWDC I may have a different understanding of the current state of 10.5.
Can't wait to hear your take on it, shawnce. I have to admit that I enjoy your rejoinders whenever the trolls show up, so your take is particularly refreshing in my opinion.
Yeah I don't think we will see 10.5 released at MWSF '07 (thinking CQ2 2007) but after I get back from WWDC I may have a different understanding of the current state of 10.5.
Can't wait to hear your take on it, shawnce. I have to admit that I enjoy your rejoinders whenever the trolls show up, so your take is particularly refreshing in my opinion.
ciTiger
Apr 11, 07:53 AM
I hope there are big improvements...
AppleInLVX
Apr 11, 01:00 PM
And you'll be complaining about battery life and the Android experience in a few days.
Be fair. I'm still using an HTC Hero in spite of the fact that I have Apple everything else. This little underpowered crappy screened, poorly designed device can do things my brother's iPhone 4 cannot. Really cool things. The fact the hardware sucks I will readily give you--however, the experience of the OS is doing to Apple what Apple is doing to RIM. iOS better damned well rock.
Be fair. I'm still using an HTC Hero in spite of the fact that I have Apple everything else. This little underpowered crappy screened, poorly designed device can do things my brother's iPhone 4 cannot. Really cool things. The fact the hardware sucks I will readily give you--however, the experience of the OS is doing to Apple what Apple is doing to RIM. iOS better damned well rock.
RebootD
Apr 5, 06:13 PM
Personally, I love CS5, even on the Mac Pro with 5870/GTX285. Hopefully this won't jinx myself, but I've had no bugs or frustrations, and I edit full HD movies with it.
I'm looking forward to this version of FCS, because I've only played around in it with others' systems, and it didn't blow my skirt up. It will be nice to have both suites, if the new FCS proves worthy. I know a lot of FCS users, and I look forward to joining them, so get this thing right, Apple.
I took the plunge and upgraded my CS4 Design to Master in order to take advantage of 64bit Premiere/AE. Really looking forward to this, hopefully Apple can catch up to the competition.
I'm looking forward to this version of FCS, because I've only played around in it with others' systems, and it didn't blow my skirt up. It will be nice to have both suites, if the new FCS proves worthy. I know a lot of FCS users, and I look forward to joining them, so get this thing right, Apple.
I took the plunge and upgraded my CS4 Design to Master in order to take advantage of 64bit Premiere/AE. Really looking forward to this, hopefully Apple can catch up to the competition.
840quadra
Apr 25, 02:55 PM
I love how Media and most everyone was asleep about this known issue, until just recently, and now it is some kind of emergency.
I am not an Apple apologist by any means, but it is NOT their fault if people are not securely backing up, their personal and private data.
Apple's only fault (IMHO) is not encrypting the location logfile on the phone, or the system with regards to backups. Regardless, security of data is the end user's responsibility, not the manufacturer of their computer or software.
I am not an Apple apologist by any means, but it is NOT their fault if people are not securely backing up, their personal and private data.
Apple's only fault (IMHO) is not encrypting the location logfile on the phone, or the system with regards to backups. Regardless, security of data is the end user's responsibility, not the manufacturer of their computer or software.
aohus
Apr 19, 02:35 PM
WRONG. A lot of modern GUI elements are INVENTED by Apple:
http://obamapacman.com/2010/03/myth-copyright-theft-apple-stole-gui-from-xerox-parc-alto/
WRONG! They weren't invented at Apple's Cupertino HQ, they were invented back in Palo Alto (Xerox PARC).
Secondly, your source is a pro-Apple website. Thats a problem right there.
I'll give you a proper source, the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/20/business/xerox-vs-apple-standard-dashboard-is-at-issue.html), which wrote an article on Xerox vs Apple back in 1989, untarnished, in its raw form. Your 'source' was cherry picking data.
Here is one excerpt.
Then Apple CEO John Sculley stated:
Apple may face special problems because of admissions made by its chairman, John Sculley, in his 1987 book, ''Odyssey,'' a chronicle of his split with Apple's co-founder, Steven P. Jobs. ''Much of the Macintosh technology wasn't invented in the building,'' he wrote. ''Indeed, the Mac, like the Lisa before it, was largely a conduit for technology developed'' at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center.
^^ thats a GLARING admission, by the CEO of Apple, don't you think? Nevertheless, Xerox ended up losing that lawsuit, with some saying that by the time they filed that lawsuit it was too late. The lawsuit wasn't thrown out because they didn't have a strong case against Apple, but because of how the lawsuit was presented as is at the time.
I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am saying is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Rank_Xerox_8010%2B40_brochure_front.jpg
http://obamapacman.com/2010/03/myth-copyright-theft-apple-stole-gui-from-xerox-parc-alto/
WRONG! They weren't invented at Apple's Cupertino HQ, they were invented back in Palo Alto (Xerox PARC).
Secondly, your source is a pro-Apple website. Thats a problem right there.
I'll give you a proper source, the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/20/business/xerox-vs-apple-standard-dashboard-is-at-issue.html), which wrote an article on Xerox vs Apple back in 1989, untarnished, in its raw form. Your 'source' was cherry picking data.
Here is one excerpt.
Then Apple CEO John Sculley stated:
Apple may face special problems because of admissions made by its chairman, John Sculley, in his 1987 book, ''Odyssey,'' a chronicle of his split with Apple's co-founder, Steven P. Jobs. ''Much of the Macintosh technology wasn't invented in the building,'' he wrote. ''Indeed, the Mac, like the Lisa before it, was largely a conduit for technology developed'' at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center.
^^ thats a GLARING admission, by the CEO of Apple, don't you think? Nevertheless, Xerox ended up losing that lawsuit, with some saying that by the time they filed that lawsuit it was too late. The lawsuit wasn't thrown out because they didn't have a strong case against Apple, but because of how the lawsuit was presented as is at the time.
I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am saying is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Rank_Xerox_8010%2B40_brochure_front.jpg
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